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	Transcript: Q&A with Bishop Banks Journal Sentinel Online March 22, 2003 http://www2.jsonline.com:80/news/state/mar03/129180.asp Robert Banks, bishop of the Catholic Diocese of Green Bay, spoke with Journal Sentinel reporters Marie Rohde and Steve Schultze at his diocesan office on Feb. 21 about the church's handling of sexual abuse allegations against Donald J. Buzanowski, a suspended Green Bay priest now living in Milwaukee. Also present for the interview were Tony Kuick and Renae Wuerger, spokespersons for the diocese. Following is a transcript of the interview. A. Banks: It puzzles me, as to what is going to be your story line on this? In other words, how will the headline and the first paragraph run? Q. Schultze: Since it isn't written it's a little hard to say. Obviously from our questions, we've been interested in this former priest and a case in 1990 that we've referred to, and he's more recently acknowledged abusing 14 boys while he was a priest. So I guess we are interested and concerned how that was known to anyone in the church and the general community? A. Banks: Of course we can only answer for the church. Now you say you have the information? I gather you have a letter that has this. Is the letter written by whom? Q. Schultze: The letter is written by Don Buzanowski. A. Banks: To whom? Q. Rohde: The district attorney's office has that letter now. A. Banks: Which district attorney's office? Q. Rohde: Brown County, as does, I understand, his probation officer. A. Banks: Do you have a copy of the letter that we could see? Q. Schultze: No. Q. Rohde: We do have a copy of it, but no. A. Banks: But it would be in our Brown County office? Q. Schultze: Right. A. Banks: OK. Have they indicated that they are going to do anything about it? Q. Schultze: The district attorney said he turned it over to the police department for investigation. A. Banks: That happened when? Q. Schultze: Relatively recently. A. Banks: Was it the past week or the past month? Q. Rohde: A week or so ago. Maybe two weeks ago. A. Banks: There's no one who has been in contact with us. Q. Rohde: So basically from this response you say you've only had the one complaint against (Buzanowski); he was granted a one year leave of absence. Earlier when I asked about this, you said he was placed on a one year. I drew from that; that didn't make it sound very voluntary. Was this something that he requested? A. Banks: It was something he requested. Q: Schultze: Before we start out here. You say there was only one complaint of misconduct regarding Buzanowski? A. Banks: That's all we have in our files. Q. Schultze: That was the 1990 case? A. Banks: No one else has ever said anything. That we know of. Q. Rohde: You would know of it? A. Banks: I wasn't around back then, but according to our files and according to the people we've talked to, the people who would have been handling we knew of no other incidents. Q. Rohde: Who would have been handling the case? Father Kiefer? A. Banks: Father Kiefer. Q. Rohde: So no one from any of his previous assignments. Because it seemed that he moved more frequently than most priests. A. Kuick: That's not true. He moved early on, probably a little bit when he was younger. But later on I think those years were spaced out. Q. Rohde: (Reads from written statement) You communicated that in a letter to him? A. Banks: I didn't, I'm sure it was (former Green Bay) Bishop Maida. Q. Rohde: Father Kiefer did go to see him on Jan. 31, 1990. How did that allegation come to your attention: A. Banks: We don't have anything in the files, but from memory is that someone from the Schauer family (who accused Buzanowski of abusing 10-year-old David Schauer) came forward. Q. Rohde: Who, the mother? A. Banks: I think it was the mother, but I'm not sure. Q. Schultze: This was from Father Kiefer who (inaudible). A. Banks: Yes. Q. Schultze: Well, Mrs. Schauer said she did not come forward until months after this. Q. Rohde: She did not want to jeopardize; in fact she had seen a civil lawyer and was advised. A. Banks: Well, we have a piece of paper saying she was seen at least in March and we have also a record that there was an appointment in February. Q. Rohde: But the question is about the January communication? A. Banks: Well, we don't have anything in our records on that but the memory of the people...? Q. Schultze: In January? A. Banks: There was either a meeting or a conversation in January. Q. Rohde: Did you have a meeting or a conversation with the district attorney about this case in January? A. Banks: Not that I know of. Q. Schultze: Did Father Kiefer have any meeting with the district attorney? A. Banks: Not that I know of. Q. Schultze: Did you discuss that point with him? A. Banks: I don't recall discussing that Q. Schultze: OK, it sounds like that could be possible, but you just didn't talk to him about it? A. Banks: It's possible. Q. Rohde: Question No. 7, Did Buzanowski admit or deny having improper sexual contact? You say there is nothing in the files that he admitted or denied? A. Banks: Right. Q. Rohde: Do you have any idea how the district attorney would have something in their files saying that Father Kiefer, that they had a letter saying that he denied it? A. Banks: Who has a letter? Q. Rohde: The district attorney. Q. Schultze: He has a memo from Father Kiefer and in the memo it said that Buzanowski was questioned and had denied the allegations. A. Banks: All I can say is, you know, this is something that happened 13 years ago and as far as anything we have he neither admitted nor denied. Q. Rohde: I take it it was a fairly unusual circumstance? A. Banks: (Unintelligible.) Q. Rohde: Was it something that you think would stick out in someone's memory? A. Banks: I think you'd have to talk with Father Kiefer. Q. Rohde: Could we request that? A. Banks: The main point is that it was brought to the attention of the police and (inaudible) and we have cooperated with them fully. Q. Schultze: They said they were unable to talk to Father Buzanowski. A. Banks: Because? Q. Schultze: The initial contact, there was a phone conversation with a police sergeant from Green Bay, who said he talked with Father Buzanowski briefly, he made an appointment to meet with him and then (Buzanowski) called within a day or two and said, 'I'm not going to meet with you on the advice of my attorney.' So the police were never able to question him. Which is basically why the district attorney's office says this case was not prosecuted. They had the word of a 10-year-old boy and a priest who apparently was denying it. The DA's office seems convinced that it had been denied by the priest (Buzanowski), at least through Father Kiefer. A. Banks: Do they have a record of that? Q. Rohde: Yes. A. Banks: Why don't you call Father Kiefer. A. Kuick: The DA's office did request files on Buzanowski and we gave them all the files on Buzanowski. From my understanding at that point, after reviewing those files, the case was dropped by the DA. A. Banks: Do you think that would happen today (chuckles)? Q. Schultze: Would the case be handled that way today? A. Banks: Yeah. Q. Rohde: Was that a question for you? A. Banks: Oh, no. Not by us, by the police. Q. Rohde: What do you think it would be handled that way today by the... A. Banks: I'm just asking you (chuckles.) Q. Schultze: Probably not. The district attorney who handled the case as much as said that. A. Banks: What did he say? Which district attorney? Q. Schultze: William Griesbach. Q. Rohde: I guess my question was to you. Do you think it would have been? You have been thought his, more so than just about any bishop in the country and I'm not being cavalier about that. You've been on the hot seat (regarding his former position with the Boston Archdiocese). Do you think that this case would have been handled any differently today? A. Banks: By the police? I think so. Q. Rohde: Why? What's happened? A. Banks: Because so much publicity. Q. Rohde: Is that a good thing or a bad thing? A. Banks: I think it's a good thing. Q. Schultze: Would it be handled differently today by the diocese? A. Banks: I think we'd handle it pretty much the same way. Once the police step in, you figure this is going to be thoroughly investigated. And in any case... Q. Schultze: Do you think the police department here may have fallen down on the job? A. Banks: No. No. I don't think it's... No, I don't. Q. Schultze: You said it would be handled differently today, which would be a good thing. Which sort of implies that maybe they didn't handle it they way they could have? A. Banks: I never said that. Q. Rohde: (Regarding Question 12 in written responses) You didn't go to the school, you didn't talk to the principal, you didn't talk with anyone? A. Banks: We did not interfere with the police investigation. Q. Rohde: But what about your own concern for the safety of the (inaudible)? A. Banks: This was being handled by the police. And the priest was already out of service at that point. Q. Schultze: His status was he was on a leave of absence? A. Banks: A leave of absence means absence means that he's unable to exercise priestly ministry, he's not present himself as a priest. He was in the process of leaving the priesthood. Q. Schultze: I should tell you, the police officer who investigated this case, his feeling was -- and he doesn't have proof of this, but his feeling was because Father Buzanowski got a lawyer that effectively prevented the prosecution of the case. And he feels (Buzanowski) was essentially tipped off by the diocese of this abuse report and if he had been able to reach Buzanowski without him having had this advance knowledge, (the officer) may very well have gotten a confession. A. Banks: Father Kiefer was not trying to tip off Father Buzanowski. He was responding immediately to a very serious charge. Q. Schultze: You said you had records of the Schauer family contacting the diocese as early as February and that Father Kiefer's recollection is that there was a phone call sometime in January: A. Banks: There was a phone contact in January. We have a note in a file about March 5. Q. Rohde: The crucial time was January. Do any of your notes indicate anything in January any meeting with the Schauers? A. Banks: Not in our files. Q. Rohde: When someone is placed on a leave of absence, he is still under your jurisdiction, right? A. Banks: Yes. Q. Rohde: What do you do just in general to keep track of someone who is on a leave of absence? A. Banks: We stay in, maybe, telephonic communication, but we're not really keeping track of them. Q. Rohde: Why not? A. Banks: Because it's so difficult to keep track. But I mean, are you talking about this particular case or are you talking in general? Q. Rohde: Just in general. A. Banks: In general if we were to place someone on leave, that's a little different than a person taking a leave. If we were to place a person on leave, we probably for a reason, we'd probably would know where they live. That's about it. But we don't have any system in place for tracking. If he's granted a leave we stay in minimal contact, (inaudible) he's thinking about leaving the priesthood, therefore he's free to search for employment someplace else. Q. Rohde: He was living down at Pius X? A. Banks: Right. Q. Rohde: In Milwaukee. A. Banks: According to our records. Q. Rohde: That's not unusual? That wouldn't generate a call say to Archbishop Weakland or Bishop Sklba or somebody saying this man is living there? Or any contact with the diocese? A. Banks: It wouldn't. It would now. Back then, he was on a leave. Q. Rohde: There was no reason to? Do you know whether he was involved, I know the rule is that he is not supposed to be involved in any ministry. We were told that he ws doing some work at Mother of Good Counsel School? A. Banks: Nothing in our records would indicate that. Q. Rohde: Were you aware of the nature of the work that he was involved in? A. Banks: I didn't know what he was involved in. Q. Rohde: In Milwaukee he got a job as a counselor and worked pretty extensively with children. Both in the court system and we talked to some people who said he was a frequent visitor and counselor of children at Wales School for Boys. Were you aware of that? This was prior to his departure from the priesthood. A. Banks: The diocese was not aware of it. A. Kuick: This is the Council on Alcohol and Drugs or was it a different one? Q. Schultze: This may not have been a job. He may have been doing some counseling at Wales. His role as a counselor there may have been as a volunteer. Q. Rohde: So has he officially left the priesthood? Has he resigned? A. Banks: He's resigned from the priesthood. Q. Rohde: My understanding of that is that it would be different from my resigning as a reporter... A. Banks: That's right. Q. Rohde: Where they say, don't let the door hit you on the way out. But because this church is a sacramental church, ordination is a sacrament, you take this very very seriously... A. Banks: Yeah, but once they step away from it... Q. Rodhe: But you have to file paperwork with the Vatican, don't you? A. Banks: No. Q. Rohde: You do not? A. Banks: No. Q. Rohde: You never notified the vatican that the man was resigning? There was nothing more: A. Banks: No. No. Q. Rohde: I've seen other documents from an almost identical situation and I've seen the paperwork that has come out that showed a lengthy process... A. Banks: That's called laicization. We do some (inaudible) Q. Rodhe: But even the resignation? A. Banks: No. Q. Rohde: Because as I recall, the priest in question I had paperwork on did not want to be laicized. A. Banks: That's a different story. Q. Rohde: But you are saying there is no paperwork, nothing was ever filed with Rome? A. Banks: That's right. Q. Rohde: So he's resigned... A. Banks: He leaves the priesthood. Q. Rohde: So is he in the eyes of the church still a priest? A. Banks: He is sacramentally a priest, yes. Q. Rohde: What does that mean to say someone is sacramentally a priest? A. Banks: It's something spiritual, but he's not allowed to do any kind of priestly work. It's a matter of faith. You know, when you don't have the faith then he's just an ordinary person. Q. Schultze: In the eyes of the church what would be the difference between someone like Father Buzanowski, who has resigned, and someone who has been laicized? A. Banks: The difference in the eyes of the church, is that there's a regular canonical process that takes place through Rome called laicization. And if the person is, would have a very difficult time coming back to exercise his priestly ministries... Q. Schultze: In the case of a resignation like this, if Buzanowski wanted to come back... A. Banks: I think he would have a very difficult time. Q. Schultze: What would be the procedure? Let's say hypothetically he wanted to actively work as a priest, what would he have to do? A. Banks: He'd have to come back and prove to me that he's worthy of coming back. Q. Rohde: Could he go to any bishop? A. Banks: He could go to any bishop, but he'd have to get clearance from me, as the bishop of this diocese. Q. Schultze: What's your feeling right now, in terms of would he be worthy of being a priest? A. Banks: I don't know, you know I've never met the man. But if these 14 accusations, even the one accusation, as you know we have a norm (church rule) that anyone guilty of one accusation or incident with a minor is not to serve in the priestly ministry. A. Kuick: Plus his prison sentence. A. Banks: I'm just talking about the law now that takes care of that. Q. Schultze: He wasn't convicted of abusing, he was convicted of possession of child pornography. Would that exclude him from... A. Banks: Yes, that's sexual abuse. Q. Rohde: Is he eligible for retirement pay, by the way? A. Banks: If he's 70 years old, I suppose. There's a pension program. Q. Rohde: (Reads from written answer about Buzanowski applying for a religious education job at a Milwaukee church in 1996.) Do you know which church? A. Banks: No, we do not have that information in our records. Q. Rohde: So you don't know which parish that was at? A. Banks: No. Q. Rohde: That was April of '96. And then in January of '97 (Milwaukee Archdiocese issued a warning about Buzanowski) Do you know when you responded to this request? A. Banks: We have a date and I think it's '96. Q. Rohde: April? A. Banks: April '96. Q. Rohde: It was January when they sent out this warning, but you are not aware of that? A. Banks: A warning of what? Q. Rohde: A warning that the chancery office in Milwaukee sent out saying that (inaudible) A. Banks: No. I am now, but there is nothing in our records about that. (To Kuick) Do we have the records? A. Kuick: We have a copy of the newsletter in our records. Q. Rohde: Can you provide us with that? A. Kuick: I don't know. I guess that's up to Jerry Topczewski (spokesman for the Milwaukee Archdiocese). Since it's their newsletter. Q. Schultze: There was no contact at all by the federal authorities? A. Banks: There's nothing as far as our records are concerned, as far as I know. Q. Rohde: The relevance of that, there is a story that we did, an almost identical case, when a diocese in Illinois was contacted, the priest's sentence was considerably stiffer. Do you have anything in your records, we were told he had three jobs. Waukesha Alcohol and Drug Counseling, or something like that was his first position. And then it was the Milwaukee Council that later changed its name to Impact and then the third job he had was with Wisconsin Correctional Service. And we've been told by all or some of them that in doing a resume check, they contacted the diocese. What did you tell them? A. Banks: We have no record of such a contact. Q. Rohde: No record of anybody (prospective employers) ever contacting you? A. Banks: No. Q. Schultze: I suppose that wouldn't preclude a phone conversation. Would there be a record of something like that? A. Banks: I think there would be a record of that. We would have said something. Q. Rohde: (Reads from written answer to question about whether the diocese kept secret files on Buzanowski). So you're saying that Cardinal Maida did not keep any secret files? A. Banks: That's what I'm told. Q. Rohde: And there are none now. A. Banks: No. Well, all personnel files are confidential, but... Q. Rohde: Not like the one that occurred in Boston and we have heard of it in other dioceses where the administrator for the diocese and bishop or archbishop (inaudible) A. Banks: Our files are confidential because all personnel files are; there's no special confidentiality. Q. Schultze: Frankly, part of the issue this question gets to is whether there were any records relating to Father Buzanowski that were not produced under that subpoena? A. Banks: Absolutely not. Q. Schultze: There were no other... A. Banks: Absolutely not. Q. Schultze: And this is Father Kiefer's recollection as well? A. Banks: He's not the one who turned in the records, I mean, our chancellor turned in the records. Q. Rohde: (Reads from written answers to question on diocese investigation of past abuse.) You found a number that were referred to this committee. Did that include... A. Banks: Any file that had anything in it about an allegation of abuse of a minor. Q. Rohde: They have reviewed allegations against 39 priests. How far back to those date? Were the majority of them from like 1960 to '70s? A. Banks: I can't say that, I'm sorry. Q. Rohde: You don't have any breakdown of that at all? A. Banks: No, we don't. Q. Rohde: Does it go all the way back to 1873? A. Banks: It goes back to the beginning of the diocese. I think most of them are from this century, I'll say that. Q. Rohde: But you can't say if most were from the last three or four decades? A. Banks: I wouldn't want to say that without really looking at it. Q. Rohde: Are there any priests in this diocese who remain as priests who have allegations against them? A. Banks: No. A. Kuick: What is the question? Q. Rohde: Priests who have not been on a leave, is what I'm trying to say. A. Banks: If it's an allegation of sex abuse of a minor, a credible allegation of sex abuse of a minor, then they are either on temporary leave or they are out of the priesthood. I mean, out of ministry. Q. Rohde: Who determines credibility? Have you sent all of those to civil authorities? A. Banks: (inaudible) Q. Rohde: You've given them the files and they've made the determination? A. Banks: You can check with them. I'm trying to remember now the allegations. (inaudible) A. Kuick: We have two priests on administrative leave right now. Q. Rohde: There are no other priests? A. Banks: None that I can think of right now. Q. Schultze: Can you discuss what Father Buzanowski's reasons were for wanting to go on leave? A. Banks: You understand I wasn't here at the time? Q. Schultze: Right. But you may have spoken with him? A. Banks: No. (I assume he was) interested in leaving the priesthood. The letter in which he was granted the leave said that it was assumed that he would not be returning to the priestly ministry. Q. Rohde: Why was that assumption made? A. Banks: Well, he evidently said something that indicated that to Bishop Maida. Bishop Maida wrote the letter. And the bishop generally wouldn't put that in unless the priest had something to indicate he was thinking of leaving the priesthood. And that generally is why a leave of absence is granted. You know, a leave of absence to you sounds like it's a leave because they can do something else. To get a leave of absence from priestly ministry is to step down from priestly ministry. And the only reason you would get, generally, that kind of permission is because you are thinking of leaving the priestly ministry permanently. And this is a way of finding out. Q. Rohde: But people get leaves for other reasons? A. Banks: Uh, I can't think of any. Q. Rohde: To recharge your batteries. A. Banks: No, no, you don't grant a leave for that. In other words, we don't use the term grant a leave. If someone wanted to come in and say I really wanted to take some time off, we'd say, go take the time off. Or take a sabatical. Or take a lengthy vacation. But we wouldn't grant the person a leave. When a person comes in and asks for a leave from the priestly ministry, it means they are giving serious thought to leaving the priesthood. Q. Schultze: I would gather that granting a leave isn't an automatic thing? A. Banks: No. We'd want to talk about it. Q. Schultze: Can you discuss why Father Buzanowski wanted to leave? Is there anything in the records that indicates? A. Banks: The one thing is, there is a letter granting a leave in which Bishop Maida assumes he will not be returning to priestly ministry. That means he was thinking of leaving the priesthood. That's the reason for the leave. Q. Schultze: I understand that. My question is, why was he interested in leaving the priesthood? A. Banks: I don't know. But I think it was a case where he realized this wasn't the place for him. Q. Rohde: So you never met with him, you never spoke with him? A. Banks: I never met him. Q. Rohde: He left in 1992. You said he resigned from the priesthood. What (inaudible) A. Banks: That would be inappropriate. Q. Rohde: The assumption was that he was on leave for a year and two years passed (before his resignation)? A. Banks: I suppose part of it was there was a change of administration. So somebody didn't check to find out what he was doing at the end of the year. In between there, he was suspended and told to return to the diocese. Q. Rohde: Oh. A. Banks: Not for priestly ministry. Q. Rohde: Why was he suspended? A. Banks: I think it had to do with the fact of this allegation. In other words, he was on leave, he was down in Milwaukee, there was this allegation, he was told to return to the (Green Bay) diocese and live in a supervised residence. This is what I understand. A. Wuerger: The answer to No. 13 on page 4 (of written questions) documents that process of what the diocese went through. Q. Schultze: What was the timing of this suspension? A. Banks: July of 1990 he was suspended. When you say timing... Q. Schultze: The date of the suspension. A. Kuick: He was issued the warning by Bishop Maida. You have to understand there was the transition period. Q. Schultze: What's the difference in that status then, that he was suspended, what does that mean? A. Banks: That's a penalty. For not doing what the bishop told him. And it had to do also with his leave of absence. (inaudible) after the one year, he wanted to stay longer and that was part of the reason as well as (inaudible). The suspension was definitely both. Q. Rohde: Now if you suspend a priest, don't you have to send some documentation to Rome on that? A. Banks: No. Q. Schultze: So then he remained on this suspended status from July of 1990 until I guess it was May of 1992 that he resigned? A. Banks: Technically, he's still suspended, but he resigned, so. Q. Schultze: In that roughly two year period, his status was suspended. If he didn't want to be in the priesthood and he didn't respond the way he was supposed to respond, why not have him resign at that point? A. Banks: You can't order him to resign. He has to do something else. So I think that the diocese was satisfied that this man was told not to exercise any priestly ministry, told not to wear any clerical clothes and told not to present himself as a priest. So everything that could be done, had been done. A. Kuick: You've got about five minutes.. Q. Rohde: A clarification. He was living in a rectory at Pius in Wauwatosa in 1990 when he was suspended. Did you notify the diocese in Milwaukee that they had a priest living in one of their parish rectories that he had been suspended. A. Banks: I don't know that he was living in that rectory at that time. Q. Rohde: Did you notify Milwaukee... A. Banks: I wasn't here. Q. Schultze: Did anyone from the Green Bay Diocese notify Milwaukee? A. Banks: It's not in the records that they notified. Q. Schultze: Should that have been done? A. Banks: Not necessarily. Q. Rohde: If there was a suspended priest living up here from another diocese, would you want to know about it? A. Banks: Sure. Q. Rohde: How would you feel if you weren't told? A. Banks: I'd feel that I wasn't told. Q. Rohde: Would that kind of get under your collar? Would that be an annoyance? Would you call that bishop up? A. Banks: I'd probably call that bishop and ask what the story was. Q. Schultze: Is there anything you'd like to say or clarify or anything else you'd like to say about some of these questions that we've asked? A. Banks: Well, what I'd like to say, is simply that I think that the Diocese of Green Bay handled the case very responsibly. That we had a priest who was alleged to have abused a minor. The priest was already on leave of absence and not to exercise any priestly ministry. We re-emphasized that to him and so that I think that we did everything that we could. Now, you have a letter saying there were 14 allegations of abuse, you can come back and make the whole thing sound as if it was not handled seriously. It was handled seriously on the basis of one allegation of abuse and I think it would be handled obviously seriously with these allegations. And once we get the information we will try to follow up as best we can in order to provide some kind of pastoral assistance, if these allegations are true. Q. Rohde: You are saying that you personally weren't here when this occurred and there was only this one case that came to your attention. When did you learn of this? Did you learn of this when you came to Green Bay? How soon after? A. Banks: I learned after, when it was the case of his resigning. Q. Rohde: And that was in 1992? A. Banks: Right. Q. Rohde: You knew nothing about it, you didn't know about... A. Banks: That's right. Q. Rohde: There was no reason to really tell Milwaukee, there was no record of employers contacting? There was no reason to notify the Vatican and there was no dispensation papers prepared because he just resigned? A. Banks: That's right. Q. Rohde: Ok, and you don't know about him working at any, you know of him implying that he worked at a church in Milwaukee but you don't know of him working at Mother of Good Counsel or any other parish? A. Banks: You know we went through the records -- Because I wasn't here, we went through the records very carefully. Tony, Renae, Msgr. DeWane, who was the vicar (of priests) during the '90s and Father Kiefer. And those printed answers are the most accurate answers based on our records. Q. Rohde: Was there any treatment for this man, provided by the church? A. Banks: No. He had left the priesthood. Q. Rohde: Prior to that? How about alcoholism? A. Banks: You are talking prior to him leaving? There is no record of that. A. Kuick: I've got 9:15. Q. Rohde: Ok. Q. Schultze: Unless there is anything more that you would like to add? A. Banks: No.
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